Hills and Saunders - Information please

Hello everybody.  I have recently acquired a photograph/albumen print? by Hills and Saunders, Oxford. 

The print/photo is dated 1859 and features the Prince of Wales (King Edward VII); General Robert Bruce; Herbert Fisher and Colonel Frederick Keppel at Frewin Hall, Oxford.

Having undertaken a little research online I have discovered there are two identical prints on the National Portrait Gallery website; one being purchased in 1903 and the other in 1985.  However, these are two different sizes and the one I have is a different size altogether, being 178mm x 140mm (seven inches x five and a half inches).

Could anybody please tell me whether it was Robert Hills or John Henry Saunders who actually took the original photograph.  Many thanks in advance. 

NB.  I could post an image if desired, but it will taken with my ipad.

Chris Cassar.

 

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Replies

  • Many thanks for your info Michael. The link was really interesting.
    I did get in touch with the current owner of Hills and Saunders but unfortunately he was unable to offer any info himself but was really interested in the print and it's history.
    I have also undertaken further research and it appears the earliest collaboration between Hills and Saunders began in Oxford, where they were appointed photographers to the Prince of Wales while he was at university.
    The Prince of Wales lived at Frewin Hall for most of the academic year 1859-1860 and for the second half of Michaelmas term 1860. He matriculated as a member of Christ Church but lived in the separate establishment Frewin Hall, which was also shared by his Governor General the Hon. Robert Bruce (also in the portrait) and who had been with the Prince of Wales for nearly a year, and Mrs Bruce.
    With regard to others in the portrait:
    Herbert William Fisher was educated at Oxford and became a tutor in 1851, becoming tutor to the Prince of Wales in 1859.
    In 1862 he became private secretary to the Prince of Wales and Keeper of the Privvy Seal in 1865.
    Lt. Colonel Frederick Charles Keppel was equerry to the Prince of Wales.
  • The earliest advert for the Hills & Saunders partnership dates from 1861 (and in the 1861 census, Saunders still described himself as a hairdresser). See here for further info: http://www.stsepulchres.org.uk/burials/hills_robert.html
  • Wow - this is amazing! Thank you so much Giles for sharing your invaluable knowledge on this subject matter.  I am now quite excited and think I will see if the current owner of Hills & Saunders has inherited any past records/knowledge and is able to shed any further light as to when, and for what occasion (if any), the photo was taken.

    I will also contact the Royal Archives to see if they have a record of when the Royal Warrant was granted.

    I am now even more tempted to take the photo out of the frame to see if there are any hidden gems on the reverse etc. but shall resist until all other avenues have been explored.

    Will keep posting any updates. Thanks once again Giles

    Chris

  • The Prince of Wales arrived in Oxford on 17 October 1859. When after this the photo was taken I don't know - the complete lack of leaves on the creepers suggests a bit later - if the print had not been dated I would have guessed January or February 1860.

    Hills & Saunders later used the feathers motif in their stamp, styling themselves "By Appointment to the the Prince of Wales" - I don't know what date this was granted or how official this was as a Royal Warrant. If official, I guess the Royal Archives would have a record of when it was granted. The earliest dated carte de visite prints by Hills & Saunders that bear this logo that I have seen are dated 1861, but this does not mean the warrant was not granted earlier. However, I have seen Hills & Saunders stamps without the feathers, which suggests they did not have the warrant immediately they entered into partnership in June 1860 (or perhaps earlier). 

    For how long they continued to sell the photograph for after the Prince of Wales left Oxford is an interesting question - how long it remained commercially viable and sought after by customers.Quite a few were sold, I think. I am not sure exactly when HRH left Oxford, but it was by Commemoration in June 1860.

    Your print is elaborately mounted - for what occasion I wonder. Commemoration 1860 is perhaps a candidate. There were also large celebrations in Oxford for HRH's 18th birthday in November 1859. 

    Giles

  • Hello Giles - thanks for your prompt reply to my post. Underneath the photograph on the board which it is mounted on it is labelled in ink "Hills and Saunders " (bottom left) and "Oxford " (bottom right). I have not taken the photograph out of its frame yet to look at the board mounting properly as I only acquired it a few days ago; although I am very tempted to do so as it appears that the inscription at the top of the photograph has been painted directly onto the glass frame - but if I look really closely it appears that the three feathers insignia maybe actually directly underneath it on the board mounting too.

    However, I don't really want to touch it yet as I wanted to take the time to do some initial research first.

    Very many thanks for the info on Hills and Saunders.
    Best wishes

    Chris Cassar
  • Saunders was Hills's operator/assistant prior to them going into partnership, so probably him. Is the photograph labelled "Hills & Saunders"? The partnership was only reported in June 1860, so whether the photograph really is by them together, properly speaking, rather than just "Robert Hills", as he advertised the business until at least 1858, is potentially debatable.

    Regards

    Giles Hudson

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